Video Summary
Vigil centers on a climate‑denying oil tycoon on his deathbed and stages a moral debate about blame, responsibility and kindness.
Saunders says one major regret is failures of kindness; true kindness requires awareness, not mere niceness.
He names common delusions: equating good fortune with virtue, treating shareholder value/merit as moral justification, and believing in separateness/permanence.
Meditation gives a ‘split second’ to notice thoughts and choose kinder responses; it also softened his habitual sarcasm in writing.
Literature cultivates empathy incrementally—making readers more expansive and generous but not instantly 'better' people forever.
Saunders points to three interrelated delusions: mistaking good fortune or success for personal virtue; treating concepts like shareholder value or merit as moral justification for actions; and the belief in one’s permanence or separateness—the inflated sense of self that blocks compassion.
He says meditation creates a brief gap—'No, that's a thought'—that lets you choose a kinder response. For his writing, meditation reduced sarcastic reflexes and allowed more earnest, vulnerable storytelling (as with Lincoln in the Bardo).
Vigil stages a debate about determinism, responsibility and judgment through two characters with opposing views: one arguing we’re not to blame (karma/compassion) and another demanding accountability. Saunders presents both without prescribing a final answer.
Saunders argues literature doesn't instantly make someone 'better' but creates small, meaningful expansions of empathy and generosity—incremental shifts in consciousness that matter over time.
"His 2017 novel, Lincoln in the Bardo, won the Booker Prize and made him a household name."
George Saunders became a well-known author after the success of his novel "Lincoln in the Bardo," which won the prestigious Booker Prize in 2017, contributing significantly to his fame.
Despite this recognition, he has been a celebrated author of short stories and a revered professor in the MFA program at Syracuse University since 1996.
"What I regret most in my life are failures of kindness."
Saunders emphasizes the importance of kindness in his life, reflecting on moments where he failed to respond compassionately to others.
His 2013 convocation address, where he spoke about the transformative power of kindness, resonated with many and has since gone viral, establishing him as a champion of this value.
"It's about a climate change-denying oil tycoon on his deathbed."
Saunders' latest novel, "Vigil," explores complex themes such as determinism and personal responsibility through the lens of a dying oil tycoon who has denied the reality of climate change.
The characters in the book grapple with the notion of accountability for their actions, representing differing views on morality and judgment.
"The book features two characters who embody contrasting views on blame and responsibility."
One character, KJ Boon, is a climate change-denying architect facing his mortality, while another character, Jill, who died young, believes that no one should take blame or credit for their lives and emphasizes kindness.
Through their interactions, the story provokes deeper questioning about moral judgment and the human condition.
"I think for the most part, and just looking at my own heart, when I've been in sync with truth, I've felt better."
Saunders acknowledges a desire for justice against those who have perpetuated harm, such as Boon. However, he reflects on the more personal realization that true judgment comes from one's alignment with truth.
He suggests that the notion of judgment may not be as clear-cut as desired, and that real insights emerge during the writing process, enhancing empathy and engagement in the reader.
"Writing and reading underscores that human connection is important."
Saunders believes that the process of writing and engaging with literature fosters a fundamental connection between people, emphasizing the importance of understanding and empathy.
He recognizes that while literature may not solve all issues, it can lead to incremental changes in consciousness, allowing individuals to articulate their thoughts and experiences more clearly.
"The language in which I was thinking was higher, more precise."
"The activity of writing got separated from ambition."
"I just made the connection between those women and my extended family."
"As I work harder to know that guy... my sense of wanting to judge him just becomes kind of juvenile."
"I think if you look at someone who's really psychopathic... it might be film empathy."
"It's very human to mistake good fortune for virtue."
"It's not as important as people think it is."
"It's really impossible... the things I really do regret are the times I fell out of kindness."
"Kindness is not nice; niceness is not the same thing."
"Most people don't operate from the Cruella De Vil school of evil."
"If you can just have that one little split second of like, 'No, that's a thought. I can make a different choice.'"
Saunders discusses how unkindness often stems from being in a hurry and feeling anxious. He emphasizes the importance of mindfulness practices like meditation and writing to cultivate awareness and manage these feelings.
He reflects on the life-changing benefits of meditation, particularly in recognizing thoughts as mere occurrences rather than directives that must be acted upon. This awareness allows individuals to choose how to respond rather than react impulsively.
Notably, he shares that he has experienced setbacks in his meditation practice over the last few years, observing the return of old neuroses that he had managed to keep at bay through regular meditation.
"That kind of thinking had to do with kind of snark, you know, or sarcasm... under this meditation, that kind of just receded slightly."
Saunders connects his meditation practice to his writing process, particularly while working on "Lincoln in the Bardo." He explains that meditation helped him shift away from habitual sarcasm, allowing him to embrace a more earnest approach in his writing.
He describes how meditation enabled him to see his tendencies more clearly and make conscious decisions rather than resorting to familiar patterns of wit, which he felt would have detracted from the authenticity of the stories he wanted to convey.
"Death is the moment when somebody comes and says... you're not permanent, you're not the most important thing, and you're not separate."
Saunders reflects on his lifelong obsession with death, stemming from childhood experiences. He articulates a realization about the misconceptions of self-importance and individuality that arise in the context of mortality.
He notes that these realizations can be liberating, as understanding one's impermanence and interconnectedness can lead to moments of clarity and salvation. He defines salvation not necessarily in a religious sense, but as any situation where an individual can step outside of their delusions.
"If you could get a lot of distance, then death would just be no problem."
Discussing personal experiences, Saunders highlights moments of emotional distance that offer insights into the nature of self. He argues that the less identified one is with their own narrative, the less fear there is around death and self-importance.
He answers a question regarding how such insights affect his writing, suggesting that writers act as observers in society. His role involves tuning into subtle hints of broader social themes that can be woven into his narratives.
"We're being encouraged to forego human-to-human activity... it's driven by corporate hegemony."
Saunders expresses concern about societal changes that favor technology and corporate interests over authentic human interactions. He notes that there's a trend that subtly discourages deep connections among people, leading to a second-class status for human interactions.
He brings attention to how this trend impacts various aspects of life, highlighting a disconnect between technological advancements and the natural human need for social connection. This concern resonates throughout his work and reflects a deeper commentary on contemporary existence.
"Without exception, every time I've done it, the person has backed off."
George Saunders reflects on the challenges of modern communication, particularly through digital means where people often express thoughts they would never share face-to-face. He recounts a specific incident where he confronted someone who had criticized him online, illustrating the power of direct human interaction to de-escalate potentially harmful situations.
He believes that the high volume of impersonal interactions in our daily lives is corrosive and diminishes the value of human contact, which he considers vital.
"I think it just makes you expansive and more generous."
Saunders discusses the nuanced relationship between literature and personal growth, emphasizing that while literature can't fundamentally fix someone, it can provide fleeting moments of expansion and generosity. He notes that reading a powerful story might inspire a temporary shift in perspective, suggesting that literature holds a sacramental value.
He acknowledges the limitations of literary engagement, admitting that it does not permanently transform a person into a 'better' individual, but rather offers small, valuable experiences that can resonate in the moment.
"As soon as you say this justifies art, you've made it have to earn its dinner."
Saunders expresses his wariness about justifying art based on its utility to society. He argues that art should exist for its own sake and not be subjected to external standards or evaluations.
He also highlights the importance of maintaining the relevance of literature in education, proposing that introducing students to classic works can strengthen their reading skills and confidence. He provides an anecdote about a school removing challenging material from the curriculum, criticizing how society often values difficult subjects differently.
"What they're obsessively trying to do is just, where am I in all this?"
Saunders explains the intrinsic motivation behind writing, acknowledging that for many, including his students, the act of writing is a deeply personal exploration of self-expression and identity.
He believes that despite any perceived decline in the literary field, the passion for storytelling remains a driving force. His students, like himself, seek to find their unique voices within their work, emphasizing the importance of this personal connection to the craft.
"It's such a good feeling between us when I give them an edit that reveals them to themselves."
George Saunders emphasizes the importance of recognition in the learning process. When he provides feedback to his students that helps them see their own potential or habits, it fosters a connection between them. He relishes moments when students realize they are holding back their true voices due to previous influences or false identities. By encouraging sincerity in their writing, he aims to liberate them from the constraints of being overly hip or edgy.
Saunders contrasts his gentle teaching approach with that of traditional authority figures who might discourage budding talent. He believes that being soft-handed in teaching is less likely to stifle creativity or potential in students.
"Karma means cause and effect; the ultimate cause and effect that operates."
The discussion transitions to the idea of karma, with Saunders explaining its fundamental concept as one of cause and effect, particularly in a Buddhist context. He suggests that while individuals may not always see the immediate consequences of their actions, the long-range effects of behavior undeniably take shape.
He acknowledges that bad habits can follow a person through life, often without them being aware of the repercussions. This reflects a deeper understanding of personal responsibility and the impact of one's mindset on their journey.
"What if you don’t have any writing career? What if you’re just a good father and husband?"
Saunders shares a reflective moment from a visit to his alma mater, recalling a time of personal struggle during his college years. He juxtaposes his past ambitions with his present realization that fulfillment can stem from simple joys and relationships, even without the validation of a successful career.
He expresses a profound sense of peace in recognizing that a meaningful life is not solely reliant on achievements or accolades. He discovered that being a good father and husband holds significant value, allowing him to appreciate the unique beauty found in life beyond professional success. This realization marks a poignant evolution in his understanding of happiness.
