John Kiriakou: "Be Scared" Why Palantir Should Terrify You

The Origins of LifeLog and Facebook 00:00

"The government once had a DARPA program called LifeLog built to track every email, every photo, every location, and every purchase a person made all in one place. They killed it on February 4th, 2004. The next day, Mark Zuckerberg filed the LLC for TheFacebook Incorporated."

• The DARPA program known as LifeLog aimed to gather extensive data on individuals, consolidating everything from emails to purchase history in one central platform.

• LifeLog was abruptly terminated on February 4, 2004, raising questions about timing when considering that Mark Zuckerberg launched TheFacebook the very next day.

• The coincidence suggests a potential link between government surveillance initiatives and the rise of tech companies like Facebook.

Connections Between Tech Giants and Intelligence Agencies 00:45

"There are a lot of senior CIA, FBI, NSA people that went to Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and everywhere else."

• The integration of former intelligence personnel into major tech companies is highlighted, demonstrating deep connections between government agencies and private enterprises.

• Individuals with backgrounds in intelligence have moved into key positions at various social media platforms, underscoring a blurred line between government operations and corporate management.

• The transition of people like Will Hurd from intelligence work to roles within tech companies emphasizes this trend.

The Legal and Financial Overlap Between Intelligence and Business 03:30

"In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the CIA got a waiver from Congress to open a venture capital arm called In-Q-Tel. Their very first investment was to Palantir."

• Following 9/11, the CIA established In-Q-Tel to invest in tech companies, which allowed them to gain access to cutting-edge technology.

• Palantir, receiving initial funding from In-Q-Tel, has since grown into a multi-billion dollar enterprise engaged in highly classified projects.

• This arrangement raises concerns about the lack of oversight and transparency regarding the operations of Palantir and similar companies.

The Structure of Classified Information 05:36

"There are many levels above top secret. They are compartments."

• Classified information is structured in layers, with various compartments that determine who has access to specific pieces of data.

• Only individuals with the necessary clearances can view sensitive intelligence, with potential for multiple levels of secrecy above "top secret."

• The example provided from the CIA reflects the complexities involved, where even high-ranking officials may not have access to all classified information due to the compartmentalization.

The Role of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) 08:10

"Tulsi Gabbard is supposed to have everything of everything. She's the Director of National Intelligence, so she's the overall Director of all 18 intelligence agencies in the US government."

• The DNI oversees multiple U.S. intelligence agencies, though their actual authority may vary and has historically been limited to budgeting rather than operational control.

• The structure is complicated by the fact that many intelligence agencies fall under the Pentagon, which complicates the DNI's influence over them.

• This dynamic illustrates the fragmented nature of national intelligence management and oversight in the U.S. government.

Incident with AB Grasshopper 11:36

"He's like, 'Oh my god. We have to inform Congress.'"

• John Kiriakou recounts an incident involving a fictitious individual named AB Grasshopper, who is implicated in a serious crime. He was shocked to hear about a murder and immediately recognized the need to alert higher authorities.

• Despite the gravity of the situation, the response from his supervisor was to avoid putting the incident in writing, which reflects a cautious attitude towards the legal and procedural implications of reporting such matters.

Project Mockingbird and Media Manipulation 12:42

"It is perfectly legal and actually encouraged for you to recruit foreign journalists."

• Kiriakou discusses Project Mockingbird, illustrating how the CIA has a history of influencing media narratives through payments to foreign journalists.

• Although recruiting American journalists was made illegal by the Church Committee due to abuses in the past, the practice of recruiting foreign journalists for propaganda purposes remains acceptable.

• He emphasizes that CIA's first covert action involved bribing journalists during the 1949 Italian elections to sway public opinion and support the Christian Democratic Party.

Legislative Changes and Propaganda Laws 13:14

"It was legal to propagandize the American people until Barack Obama changed his mind in 2015."

• Kiriakou highlights significant changes made in 2016 under the National Defense Authorization Act, which normalized the government’s ability to propagandize American citizens.

• This legal shift allowed media channels like TV Marti to broadcast anti-communist propaganda directly to American audiences, despite historical restrictions against such actions.

Investigative Journalism and FOIA Requests 18:02

"He was actually the guy who broke the Hillary Clinton email story."

• Kiriakou references investigative journalist Jason Leopold, known for his exhaustive use of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to uncover government information.

• Leopold's strategic approach involves filing requests and promptly suing for responses when the government delays, showcasing an effective method employed by investigative journalists to hold government entities accountable.

CIA's Influence Over Journalists 20:07

"Ken Dilanian was writing articles and sending them to the CIA for clearance before sending them to his own editor."

• In an alarming example, Kiriakou reveals that journalists, such as Ken Dilanian from NBC News, often seek CIA approval on their articles before publication. This highlights potential manipulation and control over media narratives by the intelligence community.

• Another example illustrates the pressure tactics employed by the CIA, as they discouraged a young journalist from publishing an important story by threatening to cut off future communication and access to information.

The Role of the CIA and FBI in Counterintelligence 22:25

"Both the CIA and the FBI have gigantic counterintelligence organizations."

• The discussion highlights the overt nature of some intelligence-gathering practices, illustrating how agents may approach individuals to ask about their interactions with foreign nationals. These inquiries are typically recorded and documented.

• It is mentioned that the FBI has the jurisdiction over operations on American soil, contrasting with the CIA's more clandestine operations overseas.

• The speaker points out that the general public tends to focus more on the CIA due to its secretive nature, which ignites intrigue and conspiracy theories, fostering a greater fascination with the agency compared to the FBI.

Counterintelligence Efforts and Foreign Influence 23:31

"There are more people in government working for foreign governments than you might think."

• The primary function of the CIA’s Counterintelligence Center is to identify moles and ensure that sensitive information remains secure from external threats.

• Similarly, the FBI’s National Security Division is tasked with monitoring and detecting espionage within federal ranks.

• The speaker underscores that disloyalty isn’t limited to famous cases like Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen; many individuals may engage in espionage for various foreign interests, raising concerns about the degree of foreign influence in American institutions.

The Chinese Government's Influence in the U.S. 24:43

"The Chinese are all over us."

• Recent examples are provided, such as the arrest of a local official for being an unregistered agent for the Chinese government, indicating the extent of foreign operations within local government structures.

• The narrative addresses the concerning trend of Chinese PhD students studying in the U.S. and expressing intentions to remain in the country, as many see this as a means of accessing sensitive defense and intelligence operations, including jobs at agencies like DARPA.

• The willingness of these students to pay full tuition further suggests potential ulterior motives behind their acquisition of American degrees.

Insights on Jeffrey Epstein and Intelligence Work 25:31

"At the very least, he was working for Mossad."

• The speaker reflects on the belief that Epstein had ties to various intelligence agencies, emphasizing that recruiting individuals with access to elite circles is more effective than directly targeting powerful figures.

• They explain how Epstein’s connections could be exploited to gather intelligence from influential individuals, leveraging their vulnerabilities.

• The discussion reveals uncertainty about Epstein’s financial backing, hinting at potential affiliations with foreign intelligence or influential people.

The Intricate Connections Among Intelligence, Wealth, and Influence 29:21

"Every CIA officer probably wishes he was a billionaire; I can tell you every billionaire wishes he was a CIA officer."

• Conversations with wealthy individuals reveal a curiosity regarding the workings of intelligence, with many expressing interest in espionage and covert operations, seeing it as a thrilling counterpart to their lives of wealth and power.

• The anecdote illustrates a moment when a billionaire CEO invited a CIA officer to dinner to hear stories from the intelligence community, reflecting the intrigue and allure that intelligence work has for those in power.

• The speaker concludes that as individuals accumulate wealth, their priorities might shift toward more stimulating endeavors, such as those found within intelligence operations.

Investigating Secret Societies and Conspiracy Theories 31:25

"I know a couple of Masons, and all they do is raise money for scholarships."

• The speaker addresses the pervasive nature of conspiracy theories surrounding groups like the Freemasons, dismissing them as mainly social gatherings that focus on philanthropy.

• Anecdotes are shared about encounters with investigative journalists who delve deeper into these subjects, leading to a broader investigation into the historical context and founding of such organizations.

• The speaker reaffirms their position that while curiosity about secret societies persists, they have not engaged in attempts to infiltrate such groups but acknowledges that many peers in the intelligence community have connections to them.

The Confession Experience in Greece 33:44

"In Greek Orthodox churches, they read a list of sins starting with murder—'Have you committed murder?' I'm like, 'No.'"

• John Kiriakou shares his experience of going to confession in Greece, contrasting it with practices in Greek Orthodox churches in America, where confessions are more conversational.

• In Greece, he describes the process as being formalized with a list of sins, ranging from serious offenses like murder and robbery to questions about secret societies.

• Kiriakou's humorous encounter with the priest leads to a realization of how different cultural practices can impact personal faith experiences.

Secret Societies and the CIA Application 34:58

"They asked me, 'Are you a member of any secret societies?’ and I said, 'No.' But then they specifically asked me, 'Are you a member of any fraternities?'"

• During his application process to the CIA, Kiriakou reflects on how the recruitment officers inquired about his membership in secret societies, prompting him to reveal his fraternity membership.

• He downplays his fraternity, referring to it as merely a group of friends who play poker and contribute to scholarships, yet recognizes the potential seriousness of such affiliations in a world of espionage.

The Role of Angry Birds in Personal Life 35:59

"Angry Birds was a convenient excuse for divorce."

• Kiriakou humorously expresses that his long-time obsession with Angry Birds became a scapegoat in his divorce, rather than the actual cause of relationship issues.

• He takes pride in his commitment to the game, confessing he hasn't missed a day of playing for nearly nine years and discussing his high ranking within the game's global leaderboards.

Divorce and CIA Involvement 38:50

"The CIA played a role in my divorce."

• In a serious turn, Kiriakou admits that his divorce was influenced by events related to the CIA, though he doesn't elaborate due to legal constraints.

• He shares an emotionally charged description of the night before he went to prison, revealing feelings of anxiety about the unknown, which was heightened by the nature of his previous work with the agency.

Life in a Minimum Security Camp 39:40

"It took me four days to get access to a phone, and I called my lead attorney saying, 'Hey, they put me in the actual prison with the mafia dons and the drug kingpins.'"

• Kiriakou recounts the surreal experience of turning himself in to prison and the mix-up that initially placed him in a more dangerous environment than anticipated.

• His cool-headedness and CIA training helped him navigate this challenging situation, as he adapted to life among hardened criminals while maintaining a perception of safety.

Concerns About Personal Security 42:33

"I'm so high profile that it would just be too obvious what happened."

• Kiriakou elaborates on the threats he receives, linking his high profile status to the need for personal security measures, as he experiences death threats and concerns for his safety.

• He expresses a desire for a presidential pardon not only for the reinstatement of his federal pension but also to allow him the means to protect himself amidst these threats.

Change Must Come From Within 43:56

"If there's going to be change, it has to be change that comes from the inside."

• John Kiriakou reflects on the necessity for internal change within organizations, particularly in intelligence agencies like the CIA.

• He shares a personal accomplishment, noting that six of his former college students have successfully joined the CIA, indicating the influence he has had on aspiring intelligence professionals.

The Insider Threat Narrative 44:21

"He was the whistleblower. It was the agency that was the threat."

• Kiriakou recounts an anecdote from a counterintelligence class where his image was included on a slide about the "Insider Threat", leading students to boo, clarifying that he is not the threat but rather the whistleblower against agency misconduct.

• Following this incident, the CIA removed the slide from future presentations, suggesting a subtle acknowledgment of the issues Kiriakou raised.

Whistleblowing and Consequences 45:00

"They thought that prosecuting me would silence me forever. Instead, they gave me a reason for being."

• After facing prosecution for his whistleblowing, Kiriakou expresses that rather than silencing him, it ignited a passion in him for civil rights, civil liberties, and human rights issues.

• He emphasizes that the attempt to silence him only strengthened his resolve and commitment to these causes.

Reflection on Torture and Abu Zubaydah 46:29

"The entire course of the rest of my life changed. This was the highest level terrorist up until that point that we had ever captured."

• Kiriakou discusses the capture of Abu Zubaydah, noting how the operation transformed his life and the misconceptions about Zubaydah's significance within Al-Qaeda.

• With wrongful intelligence, they believed he was a high-ranking terrorist; however, Kiriakou reveals that Zubaydah was not even part of Al-Qaeda and the severe consequences of the torture he endured.

The Moral Dilemma of Torture 48:44

"If this guy was really who we said he was, charge him with a crime and make him defend himself."

• Kiriakou critiques the U.S. government's handling of Zubaydah, asserting that the use of torture undermines the justice system and prevents them from charging him with any crimes due to the inadmissibility of information obtained under duress.

• He calls for Zubaydah's release, arguing that even if guilty, he has served sufficient time under horrific conditions and deserves freedom.

On Torture Techniques and Their Impacts 51:57

"We murdered people with that. Murdered from lack of sleep."

• Kiriakou explains the brutal methods of torture used, such as cold cell confinement and extreme sleep deprivation, detailing the physical and psychological impact on detainees.

• He highlights that these techniques were not sanctioned for killing but resulted in fatalities, demonstrating a severe moral failure in their application.

The Dark Side of the CIA 53:32

"Gina Haspel was a senior counterterrorism official who flew out to the secret site just to sit in on sessions because it got her rocks off."

• He sheds light on individuals within the CIA who derived pleasure from torture, sharing his experiences with Gina Haspel, who is noted for her infamous reputation related to these practices.

• Kiriakou’s remarks illustrate the troubling mindset of some operatives, suggesting systemic issues within the agency that perpetuate this behavior.

Audience Reactions to Whistleblowing 54:21

"If you want to engage in debate and disagree with me, awesome. I look forward to it."

• Kiriakou addresses the mixed audience reactions to his whistleblowing, noting that while most responses are supportive, he often encounters aggressive commentary labeling him a traitor.

• He highlights the importance of healthy debate but expresses a firm stance against threats and violent rhetoric directed at him.

Cameo Experience and Impact 55:51

"I broke the all-time record for the number of Cameos."

• John Kiriakou shares his surprising journey with Cameo, revealing that he initially thought it could supplement his income by replacing his op-ed fees. His first month on the platform was an overwhelming success, as he broke the record for the most Cameos completed.

• He originally charged $49 for each Cameo, though his price fluctuated based on demand and platform algorithms, illustrating his deep engagement with the service as he found enjoyment in interacting with fans.

• Unlike many celebrities who may offer short Cameos, John opts for longer messages, averaging between 3 to 4 minutes, which has helped him achieve a stellar rating of 4.98 out of 5 stars from users.

Mental Health Awareness and Connection 58:31

"Three or four times a week, somebody will message me or email me... I talked them out of committing suicide."

• John discusses the profound impact that his Cameo messages have had on those in need, especially highlighting the requests for pep talks and advice. He reveals that he frequently hears from people who felt encouraged by his messages during their toughest times.

• He shares a personal story about a friend who struggled with suicidal thoughts. The circumstances surrounding his friend's tragic choice further highlight the importance of reaching out and the ripple effect one's actions can have on others.

• This reflection prompts a broader conversation about the need for awareness of others' struggles and the significance of being receptive to those who might be suffering, emphasizing that many people may be silently battling personal demons.

The Importance of Truth 01:04:30

"If we don't have the truth, we don't have anything."

• In response to a thought-provoking question about his legacy, John emphasizes the paramount importance of truth in his life. He insists that truth will always emerge, even if it takes time, and he wishes for his children to be proud of the fact that he consistently told the truth.

• This sentiment reinforces his values and highlights his commitment to honesty as a fundamental principle worth standing by, regardless of other personal imperfections. John argues that his authenticity is what he wants to be remembered for, further establishing truth as a guiding light in a complex world.

Call to Action for Mental Health Discussions 01:03:20

"Please call somebody. Call me if you’re thinking of killing yourself."

• Following his friend's tragic death, John uses his platform to urge people to reach out for help rather than suffer in silence. He expresses surprise at discovering how many individuals were grappling with similar issues and the importance of being there for one another.

• His message is a call to action, stressing the vital need to support those struggling with mental health issues and to foster open discussions about suffering. He encourages everyone to be more aware and considerate of the struggles others may face, reaffirming his belief in community solidarity.

The Importance of Doing the Right Thing 01:05:49

"Always do the right thing. This city is too full of people who are willing to do the expedient thing."

• John Kiriakou reflects on advice he received from a seasoned senator during a phone call fifty years ago. This advice emphasized the importance of integrity over convenience and has stayed with him throughout his life. He noted that it is often easier to make choices that offer immediate benefits, such as financial gain, rather than those that align with one's principles.

• Kiriakou emphasizes a realization that money is not what life is ultimately about, highlighting the inevitability of death and the legacy of one's name. He expresses a desire to be remembered for his truthfulness rather than fleeting successes.

Personal Legacy and Truthtelling 01:06:45

"We all die two deaths: We die when we take our last breath, and we die when our name is spoken for the last time."

• He shares a poignant thought about mortality, quoting a statement he found disheartening in the Washington Post. It made him contemplate how he wants to be remembered, driving home the point that leaving a lasting impact is vital. Kiriakou wants his legacy to be that of truth, striving for remembrance beyond just his physical existence.

• The discussion reflects a deep introspection about what constitutes a meaningful life and the moral choices individuals make, especially in an environment that often rewards short-term thinking.

Upcoming Projects and Platforms 01:07:40

"If you go to realjohnkiriakou, I'd really appreciate it if you would subscribe so that when we hit the ground running the first week of July, you're on and you don’t miss an episode."

• Kiriakou mentions his upcoming podcast launching in July, encouraging viewers to subscribe on YouTube under the name "realjohnkiriakou." He reflects on the importance of engaging with his audience and sustaining their interest from the outset of the podcast.

• He notes his presence on various social media platforms, including Instagram, Facebook, X, and LinkedIn, hinting at a desire to connect and share content with a broader audience. This reflects a proactive approach to fostering community and dialogue around important issues.