Ep. 222: Ed Sheeran: What It Takes To Be Great

Ed Sheeran: A Life Without Plan B 00:16

"I didn't have a plan B. Do I run out of ideas? I go through seasons."

• Ed Sheeran discusses the challenges of his music career, stating that he never had a backup plan, which kept him motivated to succeed despite the struggles. He acknowledges that creativity has its ups and downs, with some days being fruitful while others are challenging. This relentless pursuit of success often leaves him feeling vulnerable, especially when comparing his journey to those of friends who have stable and comfortable careers.

The Importance of Creativity and Humility 01:20

"This icon is one of the most streamed artists of all time... but he's still just dad at home."

• Ed Sheeran rises to fame, becoming a highly streamed artist and earning numerous accolades, yet he remains humble. He identifies himself not just as a successful artist but as a dedicated father at home. This duality highlights his commitment to maintaining authenticity amidst overwhelming success.

Balancing Art and Criticism 07:08

"I think people were just annoyed that I was given a space to exhibit the art... which all goes into underprivileged kids getting instruments and music lessons."

• Sheeran reflects on venturing into the art world and the criticism that accompanied it. He initially painted for personal enjoyment and later decided to exhibit his work for charity. Despite receiving backlash, he emphasizes the positive impact of his art sales on providing musical opportunities for underprivileged children, reinforcing the importance of purpose behind creative endeavors.

Life as a Songwriter vs. Artist 09:06

"I feel like I've never dove into that. It's always me as an artist."

• Sheeran expresses his desire to discuss his life from the perspective of being a songwriter rather than just an artist. He acknowledges that he has two vital aspects of his career: being an artist and being a songwriter, and he argues that both roles require distinct approaches and thought processes, indicating a nuanced understanding of his creative output.

Emotional Attachment to Songs 09:43

"It depends what the song is and what it means. There are some songs that I don't think anyone could sing other than me."

• Ed Sheeran discusses his emotional connection to his songs, highlighting that it varies based on the song's meaning and context. He expresses a strong attachment to songs from his album "Subtract," which were written during a particularly dark time in his life, indicating their deep personal significance.

• He contrasts this with his commercial work, noting that while he often writes pop songs for other artists, those pieces generally evoke less personal attachment compared to his own emotional narratives.

Childhood and Musical Influences 11:08

"I was born in Halifax... houses were much cheaper up north, so they moved there."

• Sheeran reflects on his upbringing in Halifax, explaining that his family moved to the area in search of affordable housing as they started a family.

• Art and music were integral to his childhood, with influences from iconic artists like The Beatles, Elton John, and Bob Dylan shaping his early musical tastes.

Early Musical Development 12:52

"The first song I ever wrote was called 'Typical Average Teen'... I wrote it when I was 11."

• Sheeran recalls his initial foray into songwriting, noting that at just 11 years old, he wrote a song that reflected his teenage experiences.

• He admits that his early works were heavily inspired by Damien Rice, acknowledging the challenges of trying to write with depth and emotion at such a young age.

Family Support and Musical Collaboration 13:20

"He’s done arrangements on every single album."

• Discussing his brother's role in music, Sheeran describes how they support each other creatively, with his brother contributing arrangements to several of his tracks.

• He reflects on how their relationship evolved, from not getting along during childhood to becoming close friends after leaving home, emphasizing the importance of family in their artistic journeys.

Impact of Parenthood on Songwriting 15:02

"Having children has definitely affected my schedule."

• Sheeran shares insights on how fatherhood has influenced his approach to songwriting, particularly his work schedule, which has become more structured around his children's routines.

• He contrasts his current focused work ethic with his previous, more laid-back approach, demonstrating how parenting has shifted his priorities in both personal and professional life.

Reflecting on Early Music and Encouragement 19:23

"The key to my confidence as a kid was my dad always being supportive. He was really encouraging, even when he probably shouldn't have been."

• Ed Sheeran discusses how support from his father played a crucial role in building his confidence as a young musician. Despite knowing his early work wasn't great, his dad’s encouragement motivated him to keep writing songs.

• He reflects on how essential it is for children to have confidence instilled in their early years, as it can impact their abilities and self-belief later in life. Sheeran contrasts this with his own experiences in subjects like geography and math, where he lacked encouragement and consequently struggled with confidence.

The Complexity of Fame and the Music Industry 22:06

"The music industry is quite a foul place at times... it's not a great environment for teenage kids."

• Sheeran acknowledges the challenges and toxicity within the music industry. He believes it can be especially difficult for young artists who enter it, as they face pressures and pitfalls that can damage their confidence.

• He discusses the precarious nature of fame, noting how artists might have hits but can quickly be forgotten. This creates a disparity between public perception of success and the reality of many artists who continue to struggle with recognition and financial stability.

Music and Its Balance in Personal Life 24:15

"I'd say 50% of my love for music comes from the buzz of being on stage and 50% comes from writing songs."

• Sheeran expresses his love for performing live, indicating that performance and recognition are integral to his identity as an artist. He acknowledges the sacrifices that come with fame, including a loss of normalcy in everyday life.

• He reflects on the duality of his career, where certain experiences and opportunities arise from his fame, but it also comes with challenges. Balancing these aspects has created a complex relationship with both his career and personal life.

The Early Days of Performing and Busking 25:52

"You can't be a shoe-gazing, quiet singer-songwriter when you're performing on the street. You have to grab people's attention."

• In discussing his busking days, Sheeran shares insights into how these experiences influenced his songwriting. The need to engage and captivate strangers led him to write more vibrant and attention-grabbing songs.

• He notes that performing in this vulnerable setting required a different approach, which ultimately shaped his style and lyrical content, allowing him to connect with audiences more effectively.

Navigating Fame and Peer Scrutiny 27:51

"Putting yourself out there until you're successful is embarrassing because you have nothing to show for it."

• Sheeran opens up about the challenges of self-promotion and the scrutiny from peers while pursuing a career in music. He reflects on the embarrassment of friends achieving conventional success while he chased a dream that felt uncertain for a long time.

• Despite the challenges, he emphasizes his passion for music, acknowledging that the love for performing and writing kept him dedicated to his craft, despite initial setbacks and laughter from peers.

The Importance of Commitment 29:00

"I didn't give up because I didn't have a plan B."

• Ed Sheeran reveals that his dedication to music stemmed from a lack of alternatives; there was no fallback option for him. This unwavering commitment helped him persevere despite the difficult circumstances he faced, including not excelling in school and having no solid academic credentials for university.

Articulation Beyond Academia 29:18

"I don't think being bad at school necessarily ties in with not being eloquent at all."

• Sheeran asserts that being academically underperforming does not equate to a lack of eloquence. He points out that many successful artists possess extensive vocabularies, regardless of their educational background, underscoring that eloquence can arise from various experiences beyond the classroom.

Discovering Opportunities in Unlikely Places 29:44

"Jamie Foxx discovered me, which was unusual."

• Sheeran describes his journey through London’s acoustic scene, noting that he was often the youngest performer and, at times, felt overshadowed. His big break came when he was invited to perform at a radio show hosted by Jamie Foxx, which significantly boosted his confidence and opened new doors in his musical career.

Early Collaborations and Growth 30:01

"I blended in as just another acoustic singer-songwriter trying to be like James Blunt."

• Reflecting on his formative years, Sheeran mentions that he performed frequently in his younger days but struggled to stand out among older, more established artists. He began diversifying his performances by participating in poetry nights, which eventually led him to LA and more significant opportunities.

The LA Experience and its Impact 31:30

"I went to LA for a month and achieved that, which showed me I could definitely break into the UK market."

• The time Sheeran spent in Los Angeles was pivotal; it gave him the confidence to believe in his success back in the UK. His experiences working with various artists and performing at notable venues convinced him of his potential to thrive in the music industry.

Mentorship and Team Building 34:00

"I met my manager Stuart, who worked for Elton John's Rocket Management."

• Sheeran discusses how meeting influential figures such as Stuart during his early gigging days has shaped his career. The mentorship relationship he developed with Elton John played a significant role in his evolution as a musician, providing necessary guidance and support.

Strategic Growth and Breakthroughs 35:02

"I put out a team independently in April 2010, which built steam throughout the year."

• Sheeran explains how releasing his work independently led to a gradual increase in visibility and success over time. By the end of 2010, he signed a record deal that propelled his music from local venues to international audiences, culminating in a pivotal moment in his career.

The Changing Landscape of Music Release Strategies 38:03

"You release a song, work it, and it might work, whereas back then you could tell whether a song was going to chart well."

• Ed Sheeran discusses how music release strategies have evolved over the years, noting that in the past, there was a predictable six-week run of pre-orders and radio play that could determine a song's success. Nowadays, the unpredictability of a song's connection to audiences increases, with various platforms like TikTok playing a critical role in its success.

• Sheeran reflects on how the approach to releasing songs has shifted from a structured process to a more fluid and less manipulable one, where the outcome is much less certain and relies heavily on external factors such as media appearances or social media trends.

Building a Career with Anticipation 39:02

"It shows a label in the fan base, like, 'Stick with me because there's something to look forward to.'"

• The conversation shifts towards the concept of "world-building" in a music career, highlighting how Sheeran strategically planned his releases to build anticipation among fans and record labels.

• He references how other artists, notably Sufjan Stevens, had similar ambitious career plans, which serve as a model of engagement that maintains fan interest and investment over time. This strategy demonstrates the importance of foresight in developing an artist's career path.

The Complexity of Fame and Personal Relationships 40:51

"I had friends become weird. I had family become weird. I had people I'd known for years become weird."

• Sheeran candidly discusses how his rising fame transformed his relationships back home, noting that the perception of him changed significantly as he became successful.

• He explains that after years of struggle where he felt ridiculed, the sudden interest from acquaintances and family made him uncomfortable, as they shifted from dismissing his artistry to expecting support from him for their own aspirations.

The Importance of Dual Roles as an Artist and Songwriter 43:54

"I want to always have two feet in each side of things. I don't ever want to just be an artist or just be a songwriter."

• Sheeran expresses his commitment to being both an artist and a songwriter, emphasizing the importance of excelling in both areas rather than focusing solely on one.

• He reflects on his early experiences in the industry, including cuts he had with various artists and how they shaped his identity as a musician. This duality allows him to switch between performing and songwriting, ensuring that he continuously nurtures both skills to adapt to the demands of the music industry.

The Creative Process and Writing Challenges 47:15

"There are days when I'm just on, then I'll have months where the songs are just not there."

• Ed Sheeran discusses the variability in his songwriting process, highlighting days where he finds inspiration and productivity, contrasted with months where creativity seems elusive.

• He emphasizes that while he writes every day, the quality of the material can vary significantly, often resulting in songs that are merely "six out of ten" instead of the desired "ten out of ten."

Uncertainty in Music Selection 47:36

"I don't know anymore. Early on in my career, I was sure about what songs would work."

• Sheeran reflects on the uncertainty surrounding song selection as his career progresses. He recalls a specific song he wrote for the album "Equals," which was initially dismissed by others, yet later revealed its potential through reworking and renewed interest.

• He notes that he has tracks stored away that might not see the light of day for years, stressing the unpredictable nature of music release and its reception.

Collaborations and Songwriting Team 48:18

"I work with Hodges a lot. We wrote 'First Times,' which is on my album Equals."

• Sheeran explains his collaborative process, detailing his longstanding relationship with writer and musician Dave Hodges, with whom he has crafted several songs, including hits.

• He mentions working with other well-known collaborators like Watt and Louis Bell, each bringing distinct styles to their songwriting sessions, emphasizing the diversity in musical collaboration.

The Importance of Supportive Relationships 50:18

"Amy Waj is definitely one of the nicest folk, and I've worked with her since I was 16."

• Sheeran articulates the vital role of supportive relationships in his career, particularly highlighting Amy Waj, who has been a crucial figure since his early songwriting days.

• Their collaborative work has fostered a connection that has lasted through the years, reinforcing the importance of trust and camaraderie in creative endeavors.

Legal Challenges and Personal Struggles 51:15

"The week my first court case happened, my wife got diagnosed with cancer, and my best friend died."

• Sheeran shares the intense challenges he faced during a significant lawsuit, compounded by personal tragedies occurring simultaneously.

• He describes balancing the emotional toll of the legal proceedings with personal losses, illustrating the profound impact of such experiences on his life and work.

The Songwriter Community and Copyright Awareness 55:40

"I can't tell songwriters enough to protect your copyrights with everything you have."

• Sheeran emphasizes the critical need for songwriters to safeguard their rights amidst a music industry landscape that often leaves them vulnerable.

• He reflects on the lack of union representation for songwriters, underscoring the importance of collective action and support within the community to ensure accountability and protection for creators' work.

The Importance of Independence in Music 56:37

"If you show up to a session and they pay you to show up, then they own your asset."

• The discussion highlights the importance of being an independent contractor in the music industry, which allows artists to maintain ownership of their work.

• There’s a reference to ongoing legal struggles like the Uber lawsuit, where independent contractors seek rights that would allow for unionization, which artists feel is similarly unattainable.

• Even though unionization isn't possible, the idea of uniting as a community is emphasized as essential for songwriters and artists in the industry.

The Evolution of Ed's Career and Songwriting 57:40

"I think there was such a groundswell of support for me as a boy next door... playing in an arena."

• Ed discusses the phases of his career and how public perception shifts from an underdog to a global superstar as he achieves commercial success with albums like "Divide."

• He notes that different seasons in a musician's career bring unique challenges, expressing that being seen as a mega pop star creates a different set of expectations than when he was starting out.

• He reflects on how it took time for others to recognize legendary artists like Chris Martin from Coldplay, indicating a similar trajectory in his own career.

The Impact of Major Hits 01:01:50

"I think it opened up me to being a true global musician."

• Ed shares his perspective on the song "Shape of You," recognizing its massive impact and global reach, particularly noting its significance in expanding his career in markets like India.

• Although he acknowledges "Shape of You" as a commercial success, Ed clarifies that it does not define the pinnacle of his artistic achievements.

• He contrasts this with other songs that may not have achieved the same level of fame but still reflect his artistic integrity and songwriting skills.

Defining Songs and Artistic Identity 01:05:39

"Perfect defines me as a writer."

• Ed identifies "Perfect" as a song that encapsulates his identity as a songwriter, indicating that different pieces can resonate with distinct aspects of his artistry.

• He emphasizes the importance of having multiple hit songs to establish credibility both as a songwriter and an artist, illustrating the balance he strikes between these two roles in his career.

• This encapsulation of his work underscores the necessity of having songs that not only connect with audiences but also strengthen his position in the music industry.

The Impact of Past Controversies on Songwriting 01:05:49

"After the 'Thinking Out Loud' case, I felt the need to prove myself with 'Perfect' and write a love song entirely on my own."

• Ed Sheeran reflects on the court case surrounding "Thinking Out Loud," which led him to create "Perfect," a song he aimed to write solo to reclaim his narrative. He expressed that collaborating can sometimes overshadow individual contributions and he wanted to assert his ability to craft a significant love song independently.

The Nature of Releases and Collaborations 01:06:43

"If I only wrote songs by myself, they would all sound the same eventually."

• Sheeran discusses the importance of collaboration, stating that working with different artists injects variety and fresh ideas into his music. He acknowledges that while he can write alone, collaboration enhances his creative process and keeps his craft evolving.

Thoughts on EPs vs. Albums 01:07:19

"I wouldn’t call it an album. It’s like a collection of songs."

• Reflecting on a previous release, Sheeran admits he probably should have categorized it as an EP rather than an album, emphasizing that albums should tell a story and present a journey, something he feels that particular collection didn't achieve.

The Journey of Songs Over Time 01:08:00

"Not everything you do can be stratospheric instantly."

• Sheeran shares insights on the music industry's pressure for immediate success and how real hits often take time to build momentum. He encourages patience and faith in songs, highlighting examples like "Blinding Lights," which initially charted lower but eventually became a massive success.

The Significance of Song Creation and Development 01:13:12

"Dare to suck. Pick up an instrument, try and write a song, and make sure you write it."

• Sheeran advises aspiring musicians to embrace the possibility of failure in their creative process. He believes that consistent practice, even when it feels inadequate, is essential to growth as an artist, emphasizing that striving to improve is a crucial part of songwriting.

The Balance Between Work and Family 01:15:33

"If I was having five number ones off this record, but me and Cherry weren't together anymore and I wasn't seeing my kids, that wouldn't be great either."

• Ed Sheeran emphasizes the importance of balancing his career in music with his personal life, particularly as it relates to his family. He expresses that even if he achieves great success, it would not be fulfilling if his relationships were suffering.

• He notes that achieving this balance is an ongoing challenge, highlighting that it is a constant push and pull between different aspects of life.

Understanding His Children's Perception of Him 01:15:52

"My eldest does know who her dad is, but not really. I don't think it's like clocked."

• Sheeran shares how his oldest daughter recognizes him as a musician but does not fully understand the extent of his fame. He acknowledges that children in school likely talk about him, which may shape her awareness.

• This perspective indicates that while fame impacts his life, Sheeran is mindful of ensuring his children do not equate his success with a lack of personal presence.

The Impact of Priorities on Career Success 01:16:10

"In the 2014-2019 period where it was all work, that was 100% of my time. No personal life."

• Sheeran reflects on a period when he dedicated himself entirely to his music career, leading to significant commercial success. However, he notes that this singular focus came at the cost of his personal life.

• After becoming a father in 2020, he experienced a shift in priorities, leading him to work less and adopt a more balanced lifestyle, which he believes has implications for his career trajectory.

Straining Family Relationships with a Busy Career 01:16:51

"You just don't want your kids to resent your plaques."

• Ed is candid about the sacrifices that come with being at the top of the music industry, suggesting that while professional success is rewarding, it should not eclipse family relationships.

• He underlines the importance of being present for his children, wanting them to feel pride in his achievements rather than resentment for his absence.

Cultural References and Conversations About Parenthood 01:17:02

"We can talk about Bluey. Bluey sometimes makes me feel like a bad dad because the dad's so cool in it."

• The conversation shifts to light-hearted discussions about children's shows, where Ed humorously reflects on feelings of inadequacy as a parent when comparing himself to the fictional father in the series "Bluey."

• This highlights the challenges and relatable experiences of parenthood that he shares with fellow parents and emphasizes shared cultural experiences that resonate with his audience.

Artistic Jealousy and Musical Collaboration 01:20:39

"The reality is I really am proud that my house was as big as it was."

• Sheeran discusses feelings of jealousy regarding other artists’ songs, expressing admiration for effortless songwriting, such as in Justin Bieber's "Love Yourself."

• He shares personal anecdotes insighting a desire to work with other talented figures in the industry, reminiscing about partnerships that have shaped his career, and expressing intrigue toward collaborative songwriting.

Exploring Musical Influences and Personal Envy 01:22:08

"I love it and I'm envious that I didn't think of it."

• Ed expresses admiration for certain songs and artists, noting a sense of envy when he hears music that resonates deeply with him but that he feels he couldn't have created himself.

• This highlights the complexities of being an artist, where inspiration intertwines with rivalry, reflecting the nuances of musical creativity and personal aspirations.